At a party last night, I was somewhat needled for my vegetarianism. Which is kind of ok: I have canned and prepared responses.
This time, though: I got heckeled. That's not common!
Me: "... so I avoid meat for a bunch of the standard ethical and enviromental reasons, with some exceptions ... "
Heckler: But bacon is so good. Is bacon an exception?
Me: "... I have pretty bad reactions to bacon, so it's off the list anyway."
Heckler: Too bad, bacon is so good....
Me: ... I try to avoid eating things that want to be free anyway.
Heckler: They aren't human. And taste so good.
Me: "... ok. Fine. You're related to humans, yes?"
Heckler: what?...
Me: On a long enough timeline. You're related to humans, right?
Heckler: Sure?
Me: So what is the moral distinction between eating bacon and cannibalism? If humans tasted good, would you eat them?
His wife, later: My husband hates you because of that attack. He didn't want to play!
Me: .... That wasn't an attack.
Everyone else: You tried to justify eating pigs to William? His reaction sounds par for the course.
Apparently heckling a heckler is an attack now.
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Attack‽
ReplyDeleteSounds like a classic case of "can dish it out, but can't take it." Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.
ReplyDeleteSo he's allowed to challenge your opinions but you aren't allowed to challenge his? He was being an arse.
ReplyDeleteThe difference between eating humans and eating bacon is that I belong to a social species that defaults to finding cannibalism repellent for evolutionary reasons. We survive better as a species when we don't need to be afraid that the person next to us wants to eat us. And our morals are an evolved trait that works toward that end. Therefore eating another person would be immoral for me.
ReplyDeleteNot that that's a reason for you to eat pigs. You do you.
(Bonus points to Robert Bohl for use of the interrobang!)
ReplyDeleteI’ve set up my phone keyboard to always convert a question mark and exclamation mark next to each other (in either order) becomes an interrobang.
ReplyDeleteThat's awesome--I had no idea you could do that. Must investigate . . .
ReplyDeleteMichael Moceri probably not a lot of overlap between "people ready to make that particular point" and "people who harass vegetarians at parties."
ReplyDeleteWell, to be fair to the heckler, you did kind of start off by declaring vegetarianism to be the superior ethical position. That is kind of an attack. Or at least a judgmental assertion.
ReplyDeleteI took OP's "..." lead-in to mean the conversation was already going at that point.
ReplyDeleteMichael Moceri There's lots of differences between eating pig and eating human; ethical, pragmatic, cultural.
ReplyDeleteOver the last few years, I've stopped expecting most people to justify what and how they eat, even if they ask me why I'm veggie. That's fine. I'm completely fine with explaining it, and I know I have ethical lapses. Especially compared to Vegans.*
But, what I chose not to ignore what the heckling. Especially that it was about pigs; pig hits a particular nerve. The notion of completing ignoring ethical concerns because something tastes good is so morally abhorrent to me, and the way it was shown so fucking cowardly, that I decided to respond.
*Probably. There's arguments to be made both ways, but in terms of using potentially intelligent creatures for profit, the vegans are much more moral.
And to be clear, Michael Moceri: You're cool, and the position you stated is absolutely a fine one. The key thing at this point in my life is that people have beliefs, not that I agree with them. Yours is close to both, and I like it.)
ReplyDeleteIt helps that his profession is one that I have absolutely zero respect for, believe causes actual harm to the world, and is based on pseudoscience, lies, clasism, and outright cheating.
ReplyDeleteSee, I'd earlier avoided saying that. Sometimes, I do keep my mouth shut.
Yes, If humans tasted good, I would eat them. No I don't care about your revulsion. The universe is hungry.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is there is only one way to find out how good humans taste...
ReplyDelete(maybe that's not really a problem)
ReplyDeleteRyan Northcott
ReplyDelete::eyes the door::
... I like your consistency and dedication to a position!
It uh, kinda sounds like he might "like your consistency" too lol
ReplyDeleteTwo things: one I hate google plus and accidentally unfollowed you in the process of trying to respond.
ReplyDeleteTwo: was this a new person?
Samantha Anne
ReplyDeleteFirst: Don't worry, G+ only has 8 months to live.
Second: Yes. And his very job is one I find offensive to human dignity.
William Nichols maybe ‘too bad pigs are tasty’ was the end of the conversation in his opinion?
ReplyDeleteOh, likely. But, you know me: How well am I going to respond to that?
ReplyDeleteI like to think I've calmed over the last decade. I let things go. But, that level of intentional baiting is just jerkish.
William Nichols I get hassled over bacon all the time (Kosher-ish).
ReplyDeleteI will quite honestly tell them that pig flesh has a distinctive flavour, one that I imagine is similar to human flesh, and that I find it repulsive. I do like turkey bacon though. This usually ends the hassling, and frankly if they can't take it back, I'm not too bothered.
I 100% understand it when people who have been vegetarian for quite some time say they don't like the taste of meat and never challenge them on their own subjective taste preferences. I mean my own wife doesn't love olives and brussels sprouts‽
Jason D'Angelo Compose key in Linux/Unix:
[Compose] ! ? → ‽
[Compose] ? ! → ⸘
There is a Windows program that will let you use compose key combinations as well, I'll go so far as to assume their is a Mac one somewhere.
I love the narrative flow of his repeating the offense three times. Now I'm imagining dark fairies in stories just shaking their heads and saying "Look, okay, fine. I just wanted to enjoy the party. I let it go! Twice! You had to keep pushing, didn't you? So now thorns encircle and choke your city. I'm not happy about it, I presume you're not happy about it, but that's just the way these things play out."
ReplyDeleteWilliam Nichols who knows but like being told something by a spouse usually means something too.
ReplyDeleteAll this does is remind me why hanging out with a one year old is sometimes a lot easier than adults.
Also Max hasn’t had pork yet so he is in agreement with you.
While I do eat meat, I cannot eat red meat, pork, anything with a high fat content, so bacon is right out.
ReplyDeleteI find, "Because it will make me poop myself to death," to be an effective conversation ender. And one that's probably not a lie for you either, as you do lose the enzymes for digesting meat after a while of not eating it. Feel free to borrow it.
Vegetarianism/veganism brings it's own host of ethical issues, so I wouldn't call it superior, but that is another conversation.