Content warning: Spoilers.
Trigger warning: discussion of fictional sexual violence in fiction no one in this thread wrote.
Josh Mannon warned me, and I need to double check.
I've picked up Double Share, the fourth book in the Golden Age of the Solar Clipper series.
I am concerned.
Our protagonist has gone from the Lois, a lovely corporate ship, to what I'll call the Piece of Shit. I think I would have noticed warning signs without Josh's warnings, but now they are screaming.
So far, the signs are:
-- The waitress who says its "not a happy ship"
-- The XO calling another officer "hon"
-- The XO's general bullshit alpha male behaviors
-- Ish's shower mate saying "all men are like that"
These are blaring pretty loudly. Like, ALL HANDS ABANDON SHIP. There are some things I do not want in my fiction -- for a lot of reasons, but one sufficient reason is they make me a less empathetic and shittier person.
Here are those things:
-- On screen depictions of sexual violence.
-- Male privilege saving women from sexual violence
-- The use of rape and sexual violence as a plot device, and especially as a plot device to humanize women.
-- Depictions of sexual violence written in a way meant to turn on or titillate the audience.
-- Sexual violence treated as about sex rather than power.
-- The fiction excusing this shitty behavior.
For example -- spoilers! -- the use of sexual violence in Orphan Black or even Orange is the New Black can be OK. In these situations, it is (generally) the Patriarchy putting women into shitty situations, and then women get their revenge. Additionally, these are really about how shitty those situations are, and if they didn't have it happen, the stories would be worse.
Heck, I can even excuse the fiction allowing Vader to force choke Amidala. This is absolutely sexual violence, but there are real immediate and severe consequences -- to both of them. Still, this is on the edge.
So, Josh Mannon, what am I getting into?
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There are no "on camera" depictions of sexual assault though lots of sexual harassment, there is violence but directed at Ish not at any of the women on the crew that I recall. The woman he shares the bathroom with is key in setting things right and keeping Ish sane. The rest of the series has overtones of this lasting down through to the end and there is one potential sexual assault (also not "on screen") that is perpetrated against a male member of the crew. Expect the author to share your views and deal with the subject well.
ReplyDeleteThanks.
ReplyDeleteSexual Harassment I can handle, though one reason I adored this series is it doesn't have so much of the bullshit that we do.
Violence towards Ish I can handle, especially if it is about power and not sex. So, like, the XO punching him for being too smart? I can handle that. the XO punching Ish because Ish won't let him rape a member of the crew? That's what I want to avoid.
Sounds like I can handle it; I basically never trust anyone to handle this well, especially not men. But also not women. But, especially not men.
He handles it well in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteOne of the very big points in the author's favor on this is that Ish is perpetually at a loss for how to possibly deal with the situation. Women in need of help basically come to him and say "Can you help in these specific ways?" and he's all "This situation makes my head spin with awfulness ... but I will trust that what you're asking me for, though very far outside my comfort zone, is a helpful thing for you, and I will do my part."
ReplyDeleteYou're definitely past the best point of the series, though. If you drop out you won't have to fear that there's some amazing resurgence of awesome that you've missed. Captain's Share has further issues (of a different type) which the good bits more or less balance out for me, and then Owner's Share has some stuff that leaves me recommending, personally, that you give it a miss.
Is there no more finances, Tony Lower-Basch ?
ReplyDeleteI love the finances!
I completely disagree Tony, Owner's Share is possibly my favorite for many reasons.
ReplyDeleteCaptain's Share is very finance heavy, and Owner's Share is all about the finances. Possibly more than the rest of the series combined.
ReplyDeleteThat said, Owner's Share is also very much the natural end-point of Ish's story, so, y'know ... dismounts can be tricky.
And if Josh doesn't know what I'm talking about there then I could hold out hope that Lowell revised the last book after doing the Audio podcast, which might well send me scurrying to Amazon.
I've got all three of the later series because PoD is beautiful. So, Tony Lower-Basch , if you want to read Owner's Share, I'm happy to loan it out whe I finish the series.
ReplyDelete(And only a loan because I think I will want to reread this series in 2018. If it ends well and all. )
ReplyDeleteI will say, in defense of Captain's Share, that it is a lovely thing to see Ish old and experienced enough that his ability to pull off serial miracles no longer seems like a contrivance, it just comes across as somebody really good at their job.
ReplyDeleteI have a feeling you're likely also not happy with how the Dark Tower series ended in that case I'd say we just have different ideas of how endings should be.
ReplyDeleteSo far we've stayed away from plot spoilers for these books. Let's continue that good practice, so I can be on the edge of my seat!
ReplyDeleteOK, I'm up to the point where Ish is on the treadmill and asshole mcfuckface and rapist mcdouchecanoe start bothering a woman crewmember on the rowing machine.
ReplyDeleteIsh stands up to it, and it works.
I was concerned: Male intervention saves a lady from rape, or at least harassment. But, later, Ish gets punched hard in the gut for doing so. And he's in serious pain for days after -- which is the least that'll happen if your assailant knows how to throw a punch.
As much as I'd really prefer my recreational fiction to not be about sexual assault, this is not a shitty way of doing it: "Yes, you can prevent a single instance by using your rank. And then someone with a higher rank will punch you."
I'd still for sure prefer the fiction wasn't about sexual assault, as that's not why I am reading these novels.
I think you'll find that you've just passed the point of division between the section where establishing the shitty situation is the major emphasis, and the section where people work to make a better ship comes back to the fore.
ReplyDeleteWell, sure.
ReplyDeleteThat's clear from the cleaning. Fix the broken windows, and fix the crime.
White Savior complex aside, I'm perfectly fine with a novel being about making a better ship. This can be done without resorting to sexual assault.
My expectation is someone is pulling strongs to try to fix this ship, and Ish was chosen for it because he's not a scumbag. Probably a really well known non-scumbag!
There's a reason this is my least often reread book but it's actually very well handled in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteDouble Share completed. Captain's Share begun. Like, five pages in.
ReplyDeleteOn Double Share: This was handled well. I should have known who was setting Ish up, but I am slow. Sometimes intentionally so.
That the Captain's worst abuses of the crew are hinted at but never shown is good, and that he and Burnside get away with it -- legally at least -- is realistic.
I was glad that, once Ish used his tai chi to avoid a beating, the plot was pretty much run by a woman. That was a nice manuever around the male savior complex I'd been concerned about. It is a bit inverted, as all Ish really does is act the way he learned to on the Lois and at the academy -- let the women run the show.
Still, this could be written without resorting to the use of sexual assault in the fiction.
Definitely not disagreeing with you there ... though it might take some creativity to come up with a less obvious mode of portraying "Here is why it's important not to let things slip, because bad stuff creeps in when you do, and there is virtually no end to how bad things can get."
ReplyDeleteThe moment you start wondering about abuse of the space-borne limits on free will and personal space it does sort of point a big flashing neon arrow at "Hey, wouldn't this system be prone to a very ... ahem ... specific form of community decay when power is in the wrong hands?"
I'm a hundrded pages into Captain's Share, and something is bothering me. Its about Ish's wife.
ReplyDeleteOr, rather, her job. She's worker as a server at a restaurant or something? Her ship is the XO of a spaceship, and he doesn't have enough money to pay for an apartment and lifestyle expenses for his wife? He's making at least a double share!
Its one thing if she enjoys her job, and is doing it as a means of spending time productively. That's fine. But, she seems to actively need to work, and I don't get that.
I got the sense that she did it because she liked it ... particularly since Ish is (if I recall) fairly explicit about saying "Hey, if you want to do something else, I will set you up."
ReplyDeleteThough there is, shall we say, a definite contrast between how Ish applies his problem-solving abilities to the concerns of his lady wife, vs. how he applies them to the problems of his ship-mates, prospective ship-mates, and/or random people he just happens to bump into on the dock.
Perchance i missed that. Happens. Ah well.
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping this won't go into issues I find quite so objectionable. There are things I absolutely don't want in my recreation.
I'm pretty far into Captain's Share. So far:
ReplyDelete-- Ish has saved another ship, because its the thing to do. They just got rewarded for this, with the underlying moral from the narrative that you get rewarded for acts of kindness
-- Ish told his XO to go get a hearing aide, which altered her personality. Underlying moral is something like: Not having all your senses makes it real hard to be a good person.
-- The crew is really coming around, with the moral that good management makes for good people.
Honestly, I needed that last lesson a few years ago. I once had a completely shitty manager, and became shittier as a result.
I don't love the moral of the second, but at least it is done in a non-confrontational and non-embarrassing way.
Also, ish's wife is probably cheating on him, and that makes me sad.
ReplyDeleteYep, the other shoe dropped. The shirt that didn't fit wasn't a good enough clue for Ish.
ReplyDeleteAh well. That wasn't a real life for either of them, but it does still make me sad.
And for those following along, now Ish is interviewing a new potential crewmember who has clearly been sexually abused.
ReplyDeleteCome on. I'm deducting a star. This isn't just unoriginal, its also repetitive.
I never read her as having been actually abused but rather institutionalized.
ReplyDelete"other duties as assigned" is what got me, Josh. She seemed pretty shaken up.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I am wrong, and I for sure hope so.
It might have been that I had the benefit of hearing the author speak that line for her but to me it read more like "I'd like to see you try" and her introduction to the Agamemnon backs that assumption up.
ReplyDeleteThere are things in the series that are (I am convinced) deliberately ambiguous. As a forinstance ... was Diane Ardell sexually harassed on a previous ship before coming to the Lois? Probably. But not definitely. Is Brill of an ethnotype that we would describe as "Person-of-color"? Probably, but not definitely. For all the sometimes-tediously rich detail that we get, big swaths of things remain undefined, hinted at rather than examined.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Ms. Arione presents a similar deliberate ambiguity. She has had experiences of the misuse of authority that make her both aggressive and defensive. I don't recall that we ever find out what those experiences are, and whether we need to in order to validate her responses is an interesting question.
Good. Could be that since Double Share, I'm jumping at shadows.
ReplyDeleteAlright. I finished Captain's Share.
ReplyDeleteThanks for not spoiling things, guys. And, well, I take it back. This is a great series.