As for why this upsets me: It assumes women should live their lives as if they are pregnant. It takes as a given that the potential fetus that probably ain't there in the first place is more important than the desires and interests of women.
In short, because it treats women like walking wombs.
Oh, yea that's been going on since the most recent Bush term. Sorry, I got bombarded with this stuff as a college student, so I assume everyone knows that the medical community has been pressured into treating women like that for a long time.
Yeah, Eva Schiffer : I expect better from the CDC. Like I said, my time at FDA left me positive they are the children, but the CDC still seemed responsible.
I see their point. Until Americans in particular quit acting like pregnancy is just a thing that 'mysteriously happens for no real reason' they're going to keep saying shit like this. Honestly, if we as a culture could be fucking grown ups about sex and pregnancy in the first place, they could probably take off their nanny-pants. But until people quit talking about "falling pregnant" like being struck by an asteroid, some sort of random thing, instead of recognizing that performing an act of penis/vagina sex without adequate birth control may well result in pregnancy, we're going to get shit like this.
Mickey Schulz Your ranty pants makes me want to rant about abortion services, Plan B, and the inadequate access thereof.
That is: While I certainly understand the bullshit moralism and religious hypocrisy in our country, I still expect the CDC to be the grown up and say something like:
"Oh, babies that are not wanted by their mothers typically have shittier lives. Women of the country: If you bang someone without protection, here's some free plan B and a prescription for a long term solution of your choice. Oh, you couldn't get this for a couple weeks? Here's a free chemical abortion."
But, instead, we get this "pretend you are always pregnant" bullshit.
So, having had Plan B in college due to failure of another method, I'm really confused about why conservatives fight to keep it away from sexually active women. Plan B is a hormonal roller coaster. I felt like someone ran over me with a truck for a week.
Eva Schiffer That is what I understand. Basically every post-sex method of getting rid of a possible pregnancy is terrible, unfun, and an all round no good time. In my hypothetical utoipia society, this is a part of why they are free -- nobody is going to do them for fun. I think it is also the case that these services are tremendously cheaper to society than an unwanted child.
But, are you actually confused with why conservatives want to remove choice from women?
I'm not confused about the fact that conservatives want to treat me as a womb and value potential children above my civil rights. I understand logically what arguments anti-abortion and anti-birth control groups use, but I have a hard time coping with how many of those are outright lies or based on moral framework I think is absurd.
I do not agree with "pretend you're always pregnant." But you know, if you know that if you get knocked up you're going to have it, keep this in mind. Granted, these are also frequently the same people who don't think they can get pregnant if they do it standing up, or on the first time.
SIGH.
I have always known if I got pregnant I would find a way to get an abortion, even if it were illegal and I had to do it myself.
The real solution is to provide everyone with birth control, abortion on demand, and a better social safety net for pregnant women and children. But we don't have that.
The CDC is undoubtedly coming at this from the "We want fewer children born irreparably damaged by FAS." And they are working with the tools they've got right now. Warning people that if you binge drink while you're pregnant, even if you don't know you're pregnant is going to have repercussions is pretty much the best they can do right now, until we dismantle the religious right's hold over sex education in this country.
Well... nobody should be binge drinking, but I have a hard time imagining that theoretical pregnancies are going to stop people who are planning to binge drink in the first place.
Oh, probably not. But in a lot of cases I feel like the CDC is resigned to feeling like they're holding a hanky up to stop a mac truck anyway.
As someone who teaches adults how to have safe sex because no one else in their has, I do love the CDC. They put forward the most accurate information they have in the most unbiased way they can... without losing further funding. It's gotta suck to be walking that tightrope between SCIENCE and Please don't take our money.
Good, I was going to wonder who you are what you'd done with Eva Schiffer . And it is the underlying morality that shapes not only what people believe, but makes it seem OK to lie to accomplish that morality. As someone who strives to have an evidence-based moral framework, it makes me shudder, too.
Mickey Schulz My secondary annoyance with the CDC on this one is they are using straight up bad science, which gets to the influence of the religious right and our seeming inability to believe studies that show something not in accordance with political idealogy.
What I hate about this message is it does not state that all people should drink less to protect others, it says only women should refrain from drinking, to protect hypothetical future people. Where is the warning that men should drink less because they are more likely to kill their domestic partners after drinking? Oh wait women's lives don't matter, only men and male babies, I almost forgot that.
And also they say in the same report that women should drink less because they might become victims of violence. They are straight up blaming women drinking for rape and domestic abuse, without mentioning men's drinking at all. tears hair out
This makes me so angry that I'm still figuring out all the ways it rubs me the wrong way. It is coming in waves.
Dianne Harris points out the victim blaming. And that's part of it: that a woman who has a glass of wine while her date has six is to blame for the violence done to her. That she should avoid that drink because she might get punched.
How about, CDC, you say men shouldn't hit women? Oh, but wait, that'd be policing men. We can't have that.
There's this other part, that annoys me and I haven't even addressed: misuse of resources, and a utter lack of responsibility. That shittacular statement was written by committee, probably no less than a couple hundred people involved at some point. And when asked for clarification, the CDC pointed to the statement.
You know, to the thing that is hard to understand because it isn't written by a human being. Instead of being able to give clarifying comments, even the CDC spokeperson has top just point to the bullshit.
Once again, I am completely aware this happen in government. I've been a part, and had my fingerprints on shit like this. But, again, I expect the CDC to be the adults in the room. And with this, they once again prove they are not.
[ Also, I say punched for a couple reasons: a) it is easier for me to think about than what the CDC actually means, b) I do have a family member who was punched by a loved one, and who then had a broken jaw. So, it comes to mind. That shit is real and terrible, despite not being what the CDC is actually referring to. ]
Also: everyone say hello to Dianne Harris. She is, quite literally, my favorite person in the world. She is also, statistically, the person most likely to murder me. She's not on G+ much, and probably doesn't know you.
I've had two involuntary pregnancy tests because I was doing surgical procedures (one required so I could walk normally again after an accident, and one that is a routine health risk screening), and it pissed me off each time, but I had to do it each time if I wanted the procedure done. No one took my word for it that I was not pregnant, could not be pregnant, and never intended to become pregnant. I could not free the medical provider of liability for any accidental pregnancy complications, which I would have cheerfully done. (As a sexually active menstruating adult, I am fully aware that no method of birth control is perfect. And I can calculate risks. And I know how fertilization works so I know if I can or can't possibly be pregnant.)
Nope, I got bullied into proving it by peeing into a cup, and paying extra for the privilege. Being considered a walking womb when I have specifically decided to not be a womb is dehumanizing, humiliating, and infuriating.
I've known that I am infertile since I was 16. Doctors never believe me when I tell them, some haven't heard of the syndrome I have, and one laughed in my face and told me the last person who has told him she was infertile "now has 3 kids." I wanted to punch him in his smirking mouth. Instead, I gave him the number of my regular doctor (I was away at college, and had ended up in the hospital there).
Most recently when I was asked, I responded that, outside of a miraculous conception, it was impossible. Then followed with and I'm infertile.
I assume you're talking about this? http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/03/women-freak-out-when-cdc-recommends-not-poisoning-their-babies/
ReplyDeleteWell, this: http://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/fasd/index.html
ReplyDelete... but, yes. That.
I spent enough years at FDA to know they say silly things. I still expect better from the CDC.
This is mostly reminding me that I love Emily Oster.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.slate.com/blogs/expecting_better/2013/09/11/drinking_during_pregnancy_what_the_experts_don_t_tell_you.html
As for why this upsets me: It assumes women should live their lives as if they are pregnant. It takes as a given that the potential fetus that probably ain't there in the first place is more important than the desires and interests of women.
ReplyDeleteIn short, because it treats women like walking wombs.
Oh, yea that's been going on since the most recent Bush term. Sorry, I got bombarded with this stuff as a college student, so I assume everyone knows that the medical community has been pressured into treating women like that for a long time.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Eva Schiffer : I expect better from the CDC. Like I said, my time at FDA left me positive they are the children, but the CDC still seemed responsible.
ReplyDeleteI see their point. Until Americans in particular quit acting like pregnancy is just a thing that 'mysteriously happens for no real reason' they're going to keep saying shit like this. Honestly, if we as a culture could be fucking grown ups about sex and pregnancy in the first place, they could probably take off their nanny-pants. But until people quit talking about "falling pregnant" like being struck by an asteroid, some sort of random thing, instead of recognizing that performing an act of penis/vagina sex without adequate birth control may well result in pregnancy, we're going to get shit like this.
ReplyDelete/rantypants off.
All this talk about sex and taking pants off has gotten me all hot and bothered...
ReplyDeleteMickey Schulz Your ranty pants makes me want to rant about abortion services, Plan B, and the inadequate access thereof.
ReplyDeleteThat is: While I certainly understand the bullshit moralism and religious hypocrisy in our country, I still expect the CDC to be the grown up and say something like:
"Oh, babies that are not wanted by their mothers typically have shittier lives. Women of the country: If you bang someone without protection, here's some free plan B and a prescription for a long term solution of your choice. Oh, you couldn't get this for a couple weeks? Here's a free chemical abortion."
But, instead, we get this "pretend you are always pregnant" bullshit.
Ed Gibbs This is not that thread. You are welcome to participate, but that isn't adding to the conversation. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteSo, having had Plan B in college due to failure of another method, I'm really confused about why conservatives fight to keep it away from sexually active women. Plan B is a hormonal roller coaster. I felt like someone ran over me with a truck for a week.
ReplyDeleteEva Schiffer That is what I understand. Basically every post-sex method of getting rid of a possible pregnancy is terrible, unfun, and an all round no good time. In my hypothetical utoipia society, this is a part of why they are free -- nobody is going to do them for fun. I think it is also the case that these services are tremendously cheaper to society than an unwanted child.
ReplyDeleteBut, are you actually confused with why conservatives want to remove choice from women?
I'm not confused about the fact that conservatives want to treat me as a womb and value potential children above my civil rights. I understand logically what arguments anti-abortion and anti-birth control groups use, but I have a hard time coping with how many of those are outright lies or based on moral framework I think is absurd.
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with "pretend you're always pregnant." But you know, if you know that if you get knocked up you're going to have it, keep this in mind. Granted, these are also frequently the same people who don't think they can get pregnant if they do it standing up, or on the first time.
ReplyDeleteSIGH.
I have always known if I got pregnant I would find a way to get an abortion, even if it were illegal and I had to do it myself.
The real solution is to provide everyone with birth control, abortion on demand, and a better social safety net for pregnant women and children. But we don't have that.
The CDC is undoubtedly coming at this from the "We want fewer children born irreparably damaged by FAS." And they are working with the tools they've got right now. Warning people that if you binge drink while you're pregnant, even if you don't know you're pregnant is going to have repercussions is pretty much the best they can do right now, until we dismantle the religious right's hold over sex education in this country.
Well... nobody should be binge drinking, but I have a hard time imagining that theoretical pregnancies are going to stop people who are planning to binge drink in the first place.
ReplyDeleteOh, probably not. But in a lot of cases I feel like the CDC is resigned to feeling like they're holding a hanky up to stop a mac truck anyway.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who teaches adults how to have safe sex because no one else in their has, I do love the CDC. They put forward the most accurate information they have in the most unbiased way they can... without losing further funding. It's gotta suck to be walking that tightrope between SCIENCE and Please don't take our money.
I think they mostly do ok.
Good, I was going to wonder who you are what you'd done with Eva Schiffer . And it is the underlying morality that shapes not only what people believe, but makes it seem OK to lie to accomplish that morality. As someone who strives to have an evidence-based moral framework, it makes me shudder, too.
ReplyDeleteMickey Schulz My secondary annoyance with the CDC on this one is they are using straight up bad science, which gets to the influence of the religious right and our seeming inability to believe studies that show something not in accordance with political idealogy.
What I hate about this message is it does not state that all people should drink less to protect others, it says only women should refrain from drinking, to protect hypothetical future people. Where is the warning that men should drink less because they are more likely to kill their domestic partners after drinking? Oh wait women's lives don't matter, only men and male babies, I almost forgot that.
ReplyDeleteBaby girls matter, you know, right up until they're born.
ReplyDeleteAnd also they say in the same report that women should drink less because they might become victims of violence. They are straight up blaming women drinking for rape and domestic abuse, without mentioning men's drinking at all. tears hair out
ReplyDeleteOk, I didn't get that far down. ARGH.
ReplyDeleteI hate our culture so much.
This makes me so angry that I'm still figuring out all the ways it rubs me the wrong way. It is coming in waves.
ReplyDeleteDianne Harris points out the victim blaming. And that's part of it: that a woman who has a glass of wine while her date has six is to blame for the violence done to her. That she should avoid that drink because she might get punched.
How about, CDC, you say men shouldn't hit women? Oh, but wait, that'd be policing men. We can't have that.
There's this other part, that annoys me and I haven't even addressed: misuse of resources, and a utter lack of responsibility. That shittacular statement was written by committee, probably no less than a couple hundred people involved at some point. And when asked for clarification, the CDC pointed to the statement.
You know, to the thing that is hard to understand because it isn't written by a human being. Instead of being able to give clarifying comments, even the CDC spokeperson has top just point to the bullshit.
Once again, I am completely aware this happen in government. I've been a part, and had my fingerprints on shit like this. But, again, I expect the CDC to be the adults in the room. And with this, they once again prove they are not.
[ Also, I say punched for a couple reasons: a) it is easier for me to think about than what the CDC actually means, b) I do have a family member who was punched by a loved one, and who then had a broken jaw. So, it comes to mind. That shit is real and terrible, despite not being what the CDC is actually referring to. ]
ReplyDeleteAlso: everyone say hello to Dianne Harris. She is, quite literally, my favorite person in the world. She is also, statistically, the person most likely to murder me. She's not on G+ much, and probably doesn't know you.
ReplyDeleteI've had two involuntary pregnancy tests because I was doing surgical procedures (one required so I could walk normally again after an accident, and one that is a routine health risk screening), and it pissed me off each time, but I had to do it each time if I wanted the procedure done. No one took my word for it that I was not pregnant, could not be pregnant, and never intended to become pregnant. I could not free the medical provider of liability for any accidental pregnancy complications, which I would have cheerfully done. (As a sexually active menstruating adult, I am fully aware that no method of birth control is perfect. And I can calculate risks. And I know how fertilization works so I know if I can or can't possibly be pregnant.)
ReplyDeleteNope, I got bullied into proving it by peeing into a cup, and paying extra for the privilege. Being considered a walking womb when I have specifically decided to not be a womb is dehumanizing, humiliating, and infuriating.
I've known that I am infertile since I was 16. Doctors never believe me when I tell them, some haven't heard of the syndrome I have, and one laughed in my face and told me the last person who has told him she was infertile "now has 3 kids." I wanted to punch him in his smirking mouth. Instead, I gave him the number of my regular doctor (I was away at college, and had ended up in the hospital there).
ReplyDeleteMost recently when I was asked, I responded that, outside of a miraculous conception, it was impossible. Then followed with and I'm infertile.