Well, he is a poltician, even if he seems to be the closest thing I've seen to an honest politician. Feminism is a buzzword, like it or not, and he may be politically wise to avoid it, while still trying to make it clear that he supports it.
Bernie's in his seventies, ish. 'Women's Movement' is the language of his youth. Either he's speaking naturally or he's coding his language to appeal to the baby boomers and ex-hippies in his audience (or both, I suppose).
The internet is a spectacularly fertile ground for confirmation bias, so I try to go back to relatively hard data whenever possible. Politifact numbers are imperfect in many ways, but they have Sanders in a close race for fact-accuracy with Clinton (with Clinton narrowly edging him out, but really narrowly, well within the error-margins of this blunt instrument). Both of them are mostly-true or wholly-true on the slight majority of all statements checked, with lots of "half-true" things where they are clearly spinning the facts as far as they can honestly be spun, and smallish (but present) numbers of mostly-false and false results. The outright falsehoods are usually about transient questions like "My campaign never said X", while the true and mostly-true are often about genuine policy points ... one of the subjective aspects that gets hard to track. How important is that?
So, yeah, I tend to think that Sanders is an honest politician. Not the only one we've got running, but certainly a contrast with (for instance) Trump, who is rated at 65% of his checked statements being explicitly false (with 19% being the anti-coveted "pants on fire" rating where it is clearly and transparently a deliberate lie made in contradiction of all available evidence).
Hope the survey of one measure of the evidence is useful.
I expect more from Bernie than to avoid politically-uncomfortable language. I wouldn't have such high standards for most politicians, but to me, the whole point of Bernie is to have a nakedly honest person running.
That said, this could just be him using language he's more familiar with. Since we can't know, I'll assume the best.
Interesting: everyone wondered if I thought he was honest, and not if he was a politician.
Are you still a politician if you don't compromise, don't yield to when you lose the election, and are more interested in a "revolution" than passing legislation, are you still a politician?
I've not yet had coffee, and have been at a conference all week. This may make no sense; do please read with charity.
Ah ... asking whether incrementalism and compromise are necessary elements in a politician's toolkit? That makes sense.
I think that if you want to answer "no," you get into worrying territory, bordering on "No True Scotsman" problems. There are a lot of people coming up through the ranks of state legislatures and the congress who don't compromise, and direct their energy toward quixotic gestures that won't stick unless they're the first pebble in an avalanche overwhelming the whole system. Heck, state legislatures seem to be making a hobby of knowingly passing laws in order to force the Supremes to rule them unconstitutional.
The moral value of compromise is vastly overrated by many in our political system.
That statement is not terribly relevant to Sanders, who is mostly posturing and will compromise and endorse Clinton in exchange for a plank in the party platform or something equivalent, but it is relevant to others in the Democratic party enamored with the notion of bipartisan compromise as an end unto itself.
You compromise to get (some of) what you want, not because compromising is nice. A politician who doesn't understand that is either a fool, or using compromise as a convenient cloak for maintaining the status quo.
I define politician pretty simply as someone who practices politics. The definition of politics you get when you Google "Politics" is pretty much what I mean when I say politics, too.
By most or all definitions there, Bernie is a politician.
The women''s movement" advances feminism.
ReplyDeleteWell, he is a poltician, even if he seems to be the closest thing I've seen to an honest politician. Feminism is a buzzword, like it or not, and he may be politically wise to avoid it, while still trying to make it clear that he supports it.
ReplyDeleteEthel B Yeah. And he seemed to be naming a bunch of movements by the affected people, so I guess that makes sense from a cadence perspective.
ReplyDeleteLance Allen Is he, though?
Dunno. Just the impression I get.
ReplyDeleteBernie's in his seventies, ish. 'Women's Movement' is the language of his youth. Either he's speaking naturally or he's coding his language to appeal to the baby boomers and ex-hippies in his audience (or both, I suppose).
ReplyDeleteRe: Honest politicians. Tough question!
ReplyDeleteThe internet is a spectacularly fertile ground for confirmation bias, so I try to go back to relatively hard data whenever possible. Politifact numbers are imperfect in many ways, but they have Sanders in a close race for fact-accuracy with Clinton (with Clinton narrowly edging him out, but really narrowly, well within the error-margins of this blunt instrument). Both of them are mostly-true or wholly-true on the slight majority of all statements checked, with lots of "half-true" things where they are clearly spinning the facts as far as they can honestly be spun, and smallish (but present) numbers of mostly-false and false results. The outright falsehoods are usually about transient questions like "My campaign never said X", while the true and mostly-true are often about genuine policy points ... one of the subjective aspects that gets hard to track. How important is that?
So, yeah, I tend to think that Sanders is an honest politician. Not the only one we've got running, but certainly a contrast with (for instance) Trump, who is rated at 65% of his checked statements being explicitly false (with 19% being the anti-coveted "pants on fire" rating where it is clearly and transparently a deliberate lie made in contradiction of all available evidence).
Hope the survey of one measure of the evidence is useful.
I expect more from Bernie than to avoid politically-uncomfortable language. I wouldn't have such high standards for most politicians, but to me, the whole point of Bernie is to have a nakedly honest person running.
ReplyDeleteThat said, this could just be him using language he's more familiar with. Since we can't know, I'll assume the best.
Interesting: everyone wondered if I thought he was honest, and not if he was a politician.
ReplyDeleteAre you still a politician if you don't compromise, don't yield to when you lose the election, and are more interested in a "revolution" than passing legislation, are you still a politician?
I've not yet had coffee, and have been at a conference all week. This may make no sense; do please read with charity.
Ah ... asking whether incrementalism and compromise are necessary elements in a politician's toolkit? That makes sense.
ReplyDeleteI think that if you want to answer "no," you get into worrying territory, bordering on "No True Scotsman" problems. There are a lot of people coming up through the ranks of state legislatures and the congress who don't compromise, and direct their energy toward quixotic gestures that won't stick unless they're the first pebble in an avalanche overwhelming the whole system. Heck, state legislatures seem to be making a hobby of knowingly passing laws in order to force the Supremes to rule them unconstitutional.
So maybe "a politician by semantic drift"?
The moral value of compromise is vastly overrated by many in our political system.
ReplyDeleteThat statement is not terribly relevant to Sanders, who is mostly posturing and will compromise and endorse Clinton in exchange for a plank in the party platform or something equivalent, but it is relevant to others in the Democratic party enamored with the notion of bipartisan compromise as an end unto itself.
You compromise to get (some of) what you want, not because compromising is nice. A politician who doesn't understand that is either a fool, or using compromise as a convenient cloak for maintaining the status quo.
I define politician pretty simply as someone who practices politics. The definition of politics you get when you Google "Politics" is pretty much what I mean when I say politics, too.
ReplyDeleteBy most or all definitions there, Bernie is a politician.