I think the sort of game design I'm interested in is about shaping the conversation; what sort of conversation do I want to have? What sort of conversation do I think is interesting at the table? What stories do I want people to tell me about?
Board games do this, too, of course. In Carc we have discussions regarding how terrible our friends are; in Catan there are discussions about beneficial trades.
In Apocalypse World, there's a conversation shaped by how hot, cool, sharp, hard, and weird our characters are. The moves shape the conversation, for sure.
The hacks all modify the conversation, right.
Dungeon World has conversations about killing monsters; Urban Shadows has conversations about politics and debt. Monsterhearts, oh monsterhearts, conversations about sex and teenagers and teenage sexuality.
Dungeons & Dragons -- I'm not actually sure -- but at least some versions the conversation has been about distance, base attack bonuses, and THACO. That's all pretty abstract.
What conversation does your game engender?
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Currently my Star Wars players have been asking questions like:
ReplyDelete"Can we trust this guy?"
"Should we help these people?"
"Do you want to be the sort of Force user who crushes people with cars?"
The PCs are capable and free. They can do pretty much whatever they want to do, so in a galaxy where most people have very little and a totalitarian military is bearing down on them, what is it that you want to do?
I must be playing Catan wrong because my conversations are usually about how Sean Leventhal is terrible for putting the robber on my territory :)
ReplyDeleteD&D's conversations are about THAC0, BAB, or whatever to exactly the same degree that DW's conversations are about how likely 2d6 is to result in 6-, 7-9, or 10+. It's part of the game, but not something you discuss at the table except as crosstalk.
ReplyDeleteThat, too, Patty Kirsch! Both Catan and Carc lead to a lot of conversations where we hate on our loved ones. I'm not sure it's the conversation I want anymore!
ReplyDeleteBrian Ashford What're you running it in? d6 / weg / Star Wars World?
ReplyDeleteBrandes Stoddard We've had different experiences. The conversations I've had in loads of D&D has been about what number you need to hit, or whatever. I rarely see people adding the numbers up before a die roll in AW. Not sure what the difference is, and maybe has little enough to do with the games. But sure is my experience.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Nichols Edge of the Empire.
ReplyDeleteThe multi-faceted results let me bring in all the different factions pretty frequently (you rolled two threat? Sounds like Matagora the Hutt gets word of what you are up to) and they also make both getting into, and getting out of trouble fairly easy. I love it.
For your design purposes, is there any functional difference between "the game is about X" and "the game engenders conversations about X"? I don't really follow what framing things as a conversation is buying you.
ReplyDeleteDan Maruschak Sure! I have conversations all the time, and I know what it is to hold a conversation. So do we all. I'm not sure what it gets me to ignore that games are a conversation.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Nichols By any chance were you playing 3rd ed or Pathfinder or 4th ed? I find with those editions it is harder to get past the rules and enjoy the fiction.
ReplyDeleteMy last campaign was basically D&D the questions there were along the lines of:
"What the fuck is that?!"
"Are these people totally evil or completely crazy?"
"I don't think we should go this way? Is there another way we can go?"
William Nichols It seems like you answered a slightly different question than the one I asked. If games are a conversation isn't it just redundant to emphasize the conversational aspect?
ReplyDeleteWilliam Nichols "We've had different experiences. "
ReplyDeleteI kind of feel like that's the important thing to keep in mind. Trying you use your own experiences as the standard for anything is.... sketchy.
I mean, sure in the DnD games I've played in we talk about what we need to hit or any other bit of the rules, but we also talk about our characters going into dungeons, killing monsters, interrogating the locals, and every other thing wee do in the game. My Fate games have tons of talk about what we need to get target wise, as well as talk on what cool thing we want to do, or just what we are doing to investigate.
Dan Maruschak I don't think it is redundant, nah. D&D may be about, say, killing goblins and taking their stuff (maybe), but the conversations I've had regarding it even at the table are a lot of technical rules questions. I remember once we discussed subordinate clauses and using verbs as adverbs and how this modifies the meaning!
ReplyDeleteMatt Johnson That's cool, and completely counter to my experiences of running and playing in D&D for decades. I'd love to see a D&D game that didn't become that, but I sure never have!
ReplyDeleteAs for whether that's sketchy: I got nothing else I can use but my own experience.
Besides folks, this isn't really meant to be about D&D! That was a throw away claim about a game I don't play anymore because I don't enjoy the conversation.
We are ever so much more than you remember us to be. Can you dare to return to the single story after this?
ReplyDeleteCan you unpack that a little, Mo Jave?
ReplyDeleteThat is (often) the conversation I am having as a designer with my players. Notabky not necessarily the conversation that the game makes between the players.
ReplyDeleteSchema asks "What do you care about most, of these things?". In the framework of the setting we're playing and how we're playing it, that orients towards "There are troubles all around. What's worth bleeding for? What's worth dying for?"
ReplyDelete