I presnted these options for my Mage's family history: Native, Refugees, Newly Arrived, Dozen generation
I was asked "So ... mages can't be here thorough coercion?"
I ask you, internet: Can these mages be here through coercion?
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I think all of these options can easily mean they are in living there through coercion. In fact refugees are very likely the case.
ReplyDeleteyeah i agree with david, saying "mages can't be here thru coercion" seems completely out of left field to me.
ReplyDeleteWere they asking about elf trafficking?
ReplyDeleteNo? Maybe? I'm not really sure how the question flows from the listed things.
ReplyDeleteIsn't being a refugee basically defined as 'if you go back to your home land your going to die'? I'd say that's coercion
ReplyDeleteDavid Rothfeder ding ding!
ReplyDeleteAh, but are they here by coercion, or simply not there (but could be anywhere else)?
ReplyDeleteOut of interest, are these lists like the look lists in AW, or more like the alignment lists in DW?
ReplyDeleteJames Iles In your view, how are those different?
ReplyDeleteI'd say 'we'll let you live here' when everywhere else people are chill with letting you die is also a type of coercion.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I have greatly enjoyed the difference in reaction on these three posts.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Nichols I'm more willing to go off-menu with AW look lists - though I normally don't. With DW alignments I almost always pick one of the presented options. I guess what I'm saying is that with AW-style lists I'd take it as implied that you could be something else, but the range of things presented are intended to say something about the world/playbook. Same with the other lists you've posted - either way the list is intended as a flag, but once something has mechanics attached it feels less like guidance and more like the options available to you before house-ruling. Does that make sense?
ReplyDeleteJames Iles Yeah, that makes good system sense. Its what I figured you were positing, but I wanted to make sure.
ReplyDeleteTo show a little more of my hand, these three have a really important system effect, and the PCs don't know what it is.
That is, the players choose the race, gender, and family history for their characters. The MC has a table -- with 4 options and a 2d6 roll -- and asks for three dice rolls. These rolls determine the privileged race, gender, and history. That'll be rolled at the start of the first session.
On the privilege chart, never appearing is: Cis Male, Human, here for generations. That is, those options will never be the ones that make your life easier.
The privilege conditions have a fairly big impact on the difficulty of the game, and how hard it is to survive.
Ah, interesting. Would it be the case then that the intended answer to each of these questions is 'yes', or at least 'yes, as far as the privileged group defines it'?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I know what intended means here. Is it intended to be a white cis male who claims the Mayflower in our society?
ReplyDeleteIntended on the part of the designer that the lists aren't exhaustive, was what I had in mind. As in, if a player asks you 'does this mean mages can't be dudes?' it sounds like your answer could be 'yes - or at least, your mage can't be a dude as those in power would define it'. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
ReplyDeleteThat gets harder, then. For that question, I'm pretty sure transpersons can be dudes. I'm also pretty sure that if a player really wanted to be cis male and a mage, I'd allow it. I'm learning -- albiet slowly -- that pushing doesn't work.
ReplyDeleteAnd what I'd really enjoy is seeing what the second round of characters made as.
ReplyDeleteThat is, if we know that life in this society is easier if you are dwarf, agender, and here for generations, then what will players choose?
I'd 100% agree transmen are men and therefore dudes, sorry if I gave the impression otherwise! I misread your post explaining the mechanics behind the lists and somehow got them completely turned around - I thought you were saying that cis male, human, here for generations could never be the marginalised group. Now I see how what I wrote was confusing, and think I can more clearly see what you're getting at :)
ReplyDeleteAh, cool. Yeah, this in game I've set it up so that the privileged groups in our society cannot be the privileged groups in the game. And I've built in strong mechanical effects for it.
ReplyDeleteAnd I hope it remains fun.
One thing that's interesting about this third list is that people in a place by coercion aren't privileged, like normal, and people there for generations are (or at least have the chance of being). Is that because they're facts about history rather than facts of biology?
ReplyDeleteI'd agree the question of how people respond to a different privilege setup is pretty interesting. Are you going to have ways for people to try and pass as the dominant group? E.g. a cis man trying to be 'one of the guys' in a society that privileges trans men? Or a half-elf trying to pass themselves as full-elf?
Oh man. I so want that to happen as a matter of emergent play. The passing, I mean. Sounds like an act under fire roll, if I don't have a move for it.
ReplyDeleteOne thing -- on this list being history and the others being biology. In conventional fantasy, we sure do think of Dwarves as being biologically dissimilar -- but what if dwarfishness was cultural? I'm thinking Carrot Ironfounderson, the six foot tall dwarf (adopted) in Discworld. Or, what if Elfishness is catching? The longer you are around elves, the likely you are to be an elf?
Or what if you realize you've always been an elf, but didn't know it was something you could be?
ReplyDeleteThat reminds me of one of the cool things in 13th Age's default setting - half-elves come about from a human and elf pairing, sure, but also any time humans and elves start assimilating into each other's cultures human-human and elf-elf pairings can start producing half-elves too. It makes elf-iness as much a product as culture as of biological inheritance, which I thought was pretty nice.
ReplyDeleteThe Romans (at some point) believed that if a man spent time with women, he'd become a woman.
ReplyDeleteWhich makes me wonder: Why do these things have to be set in stone?
I should absolutely have an advance to change your race / gender / history.