I like capitalism fine when it acknowledges the importance of societal goals outside of trade and industry. There's a perverse incentive for mission creep, though.
Every important enterprise needs organizing. The flaw comes when those involved become interested in organizing the organization, rather than the enterprise.
Levi Kornelsen Additionally, once a hierarchy starts implying something about importance of people as people, then there's a problem. Or, to paraphrase Sybil Vimes: I'm confusing worth with importance -- Sir Vimes is more important than a girl in service, but he doesn't have more worth.
Tony Lower-Basch I'm not sure it is capitalism's job per say to recognize other values -- rather, it is our job to recognize other values and strive for them. Other than that -- right on! I don't normally think of capitalism as an AI, but there's a certain elegance there.
Capitalism inevitably leads to the buying and selling of people as commodities. Slavery by various other names. This is where it ALWAYS leads historically and today.
Corporatism is an inevitable extension of the concepts of Capitalism as well, and bears many similarities to an Aristocracy. Both are an anathema to Democracy since the both insist that a small elite will rule over the majority even if it is in opposition to the greater good or the self interests of the majority.
Joseph: Wouldn't your hypothesis that capitalism inevitably leads to slavery predict that events like the American Civil War, the Qin dynasty abolition, Smith v. Browne & Cooper, etc. could not happen?
Personally, I think that a lot of the evils of capitalism are eminently evitable, but escaping them is easier if you recognize that capitalism isn't going to just "work its way past" its voracious drive to repurpose all resources (human and otherwise) toward the goal of optimizing its ability to optimize for profit.
Given a chance, capitalism will blithely and unthinkingly optimize its own abilities by diverting resources from any system that could restrain it. That doesn't make the market all-powerful, but it's like having a small plot of english ivy in your back yard ... you have to know that if you don't constantly trim it back, you'll end up with a yard of only english ivy.
I like capitalism fine when it acknowledges the importance of societal goals outside of trade and industry. There's a perverse incentive for mission creep, though.
ReplyDeleteOr, to put it more precisely, "capitalism" is an artificial general intelligence, so programming its terminal conditions is vital:
ReplyDeletehttp://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_maximizer
To hierarchy:
ReplyDeleteEvery important enterprise needs organizing. The flaw comes when those involved become interested in organizing the organization, rather than the enterprise.
(I'm rephrasing Pratchett, there)
Levi Kornelsen Additionally, once a hierarchy starts implying something about importance of people as people, then there's a problem. Or, to paraphrase Sybil Vimes: I'm confusing worth with importance -- Sir Vimes is more important than a girl in service, but he doesn't have more worth.
ReplyDeleteTony Lower-Basch I'm not sure it is capitalism's job per say to recognize other values -- rather, it is our job to recognize other values and strive for them. Other than that -- right on! I don't normally think of capitalism as an AI, but there's a certain elegance there.
ReplyDeleteCapitalism inevitably leads to the buying and selling of people as commodities. Slavery by various other names. This is where it ALWAYS leads historically and today.
ReplyDeleteCorporatism is an inevitable extension of the concepts of Capitalism as well, and bears many similarities to an Aristocracy. Both are an anathema to Democracy since the both insist that a small elite will rule over the majority even if it is in opposition to the greater good or the self interests of the majority.
Joseph: Wouldn't your hypothesis that capitalism inevitably leads to slavery predict that events like the American Civil War, the Qin dynasty abolition, Smith v. Browne & Cooper, etc. could not happen?
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think that a lot of the evils of capitalism are eminently evitable, but escaping them is easier if you recognize that capitalism isn't going to just "work its way past" its voracious drive to repurpose all resources (human and otherwise) toward the goal of optimizing its ability to optimize for profit.
Given a chance, capitalism will blithely and unthinkingly optimize its own abilities by diverting resources from any system that could restrain it. That doesn't make the market all-powerful, but it's like having a small plot of english ivy in your back yard ... you have to know that if you don't constantly trim it back, you'll end up with a yard of only english ivy.
Seem like inevitable (or at least highly likely) outcomes.
ReplyDelete