What is a game about? Whatever it is, it should be consistent.
Fate varies based upon the fiction, but the game elements are about using aspects and your own skills to beat numbers. Fine. Diaspora (fate space hack) is about keeping a ship flying, much like Traveler.
DW characters are good at fighting, defying danger, talking, undertaking perilious journeys.The DW fighter has called out moves to be good at fighting, breaking stuff, and has a cool sword.
DnD fifth edition says there are three pillars of adventure: exploration, social interaction, and combat.
And, as I look at the fighter, what one thing is it good at? Fighting.
Then there's too many words, and I get lost in the pdf -- and I just finished _Words of Radiance_, the longest book Tor has ever published. I can't imagine how other people feel.
That is, folks without the time to read hundreds of pages for a game, or who don't like math, or who have never wanted to look at lists of swords.
I have enjoyed all that in the past; I don't so much anymore. It puts me in a weird position - being able to sense a value in the math, and lookup tables but not actually finding it valuable or interesting.
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Derek Balling Not this time. I'm not saying its bad at telling a story. I'm saying it tells me that the game is about X, Y, and Z, and then only focuses on X. What the game spends time on is what the game is about, and tells me what it views as important.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, that's making monsters dead.
Yes, but the "mechanics" don't have to be warfare. Why is there a table for weapons, and not one for the other three "pillars" of adventuring? That's the question - this game is about killing people with pointy sticks (or magic missile, or cleric spells, whatever), and not about the other three claimed "pillars" - because there's only strong mechanics to support the one, not the others.
ReplyDelete> You don't need mechanics for social interaction. That's simple.
ReplyDeleteThis is so wrong, its mu.
"What is a game about? Whatever it is---D&D SUCKS DW ROCKS!!!!"
ReplyDelete-William Nichols
Ed Gibbs While the eventual claim isn't far from where I am, that's not at all the argument -- nor the position I'm taking. But, rather, that if you tell me a game is about three things and only have detailed rules for one of those, that you're missing your own point.
ReplyDeleteLook around, outside of your normal games and you'll find them.
ReplyDeleteI don't feel like it, so, no. I also don't feel like having this argument anymore. The entire thrust isn't that one game is bad, but that if you give 100 pages to combat and 5 to social interaction, that your game is about combat. What you dedicate design energy to is what the game is ultimately about.
ReplyDeleteyou're pretty obviously talking without ever reading or playing a game that does spend design time on such ideas. Heck, the fate hack Diaspora even has a social combat system for getting people to agree with you!
ReplyDeleteRules exist to define the nature of the game being played. If I'm playing a game about gender differences among the icelanders (a real game), then I need rules on how the genders relate to each other.
ReplyDeleteAs I said ages ago, this has really stopped being interesting. Play the games you want, but it seems silly for you to give intentional offense to those playing different games from you -- those with rules regarding talking to people.
I think you should reread. I specifically say that I'm in a weird position, as I can sense that there's value in them there tables, but that i don't find it interesting. That's not gasoline, that's a clear statement of my preferences.
ReplyDelete